http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8232570.stm
If whistling wings are an example of good design but the purpose of the design is to help pigeons avoid death, then does this mean that pigeons were designed for a world where death existed?
Christian: Pigeons were designed for a perfect world where no death existed.
If there was no death before the fall, there is no point in highly designed whistling wings and what is the point in God saying everything was “very good” on the seventh day?
If the whistling wings evolved after death entered the world, then this means that information can be added to the genome.
If whistling wings were not intentional – but just a byproduct of some other good design or mutation – then the whistling of wings has no “purpose” ascribed by an intelligent designer. So why not say all life has no purpose ascribed by an intelligent designer?
Enter cognitive dissonance!
Answer: Pigeons whose wings whistled had a greater chance of their comrades surviving and therefore were more likely to reproduce and all their non-whistling friends died out.
Now, wasn’t that easy?
- Josh
Pigeons were designed for a perfect world where no death existed. It is not that death would be physically impossible before the fall, it is just that it is only the effects of sin on the world that made death possible. For example, Adam could physically have been killed if he fell of a high cliff. However, before the fall, Adam would not have wanted to fall off the cliff (suicide), and his judgement and physical abilities would have been unclouded and uncorrupted by the effect of sin, so he would not be able to die by falling off the cliff.
Likewise, the pigeons whistling wings serve to warn other pigeons of imminent danger. Now in the fallen world we live in, and the pigeons do to, predators are the primary danger to pigeons. However, it would be wrong to preclude the danger posed by natural calamities like hail storms, tornadoes, falling tree limbs, etc. It is an example of God’s wonderful plan and provision that he provided pigeons with a way of warning their fellow pigeons about these calamities.
That is an amazing evidence of God’s creation. 1 Cor 10:13: “…God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape…”
And if he cares that much about the pigeons, how much more does he care about you? Matthew 6:26: “Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?”
The problem is that you are not starting with the bible as your intial frame of referrence so you have incorrect presuppositions. As Answers in Genesis says:
“…to have a worldview that is consistently rational, we must begin with God’s Word as the foundation by which we evaluate the facts. Only God knows everything, so only He is in a position to tell us—on His own authority—what our starting point should be. Only the Bible provides a logical foundation for those things that are essential for knowledge.“
Josh- I knew Christians believed Adam and Eve would not die but now I’m curious if most believe the animals wouldn’t have either- I honestly never heard anyway talk about it. I’m going to email my christian friends and ask- I’m curious now. I had thought the death was only for humans- I do like your argument though, if that is an accepted belief.
Atimetorend-
“…to have a worldview that is consistently rational, we must begin with God’s Word as the foundation by which we evaluate the facts. Only God knows everything, so only He is in a position to tell us—on His own authority—what our starting point should be. Only the Bible provides a logical foundation for those things that are essential for knowledge.“
Do you really think that by looking at things through “biblical eyes” we’d find any of the discoveries that we have today- are you aware that “Galileo” was persecuted for believing their were other planets and that the earth went around the sun- that we weren’t the center of the universe- he was persecuted by Christians. I’m not completely knocking the Bible but should the Bible be held in such high regard? Do you know where the Bible came from?
” Only the Bible provides a logical foundation for those things that are essential for knowledge.”
Keyword- logical- I don’t think the Bible is all together logical- talking snakes, talking donkeys, old testament women were to eat the dust off the temple floor to be tested for unfaithfulness- death or illness testified to their sin- logical?
I like your comments, but I disagree
I’m sorry bonita, that was for Josh, tongue in cheek, my bad. Your comment was very gracious considering.
However, before the fall, Adam would not have wanted to fall off the cliff (suicide), and his judgement and physical abilities would have been unclouded and uncorrupted by the effect of sin, so he would not be able to die by falling off the cliff.
Human senses are limited by “design”, therefore no matter how perfect Adam was, he would still make mistakes and therefore could potentially fall off a cliff and die.
And who needs this gravity crap anyway. It only gives us back problems.
:)
I had thought the death was only for humans- I do like your argument though, if that is an accepted belief.
Well, what you say is actually the most logical interpretation. After all, God did not give the tree of life to the animals.
But some people cannot imagine a perfect world if animals can die, so everyone I knew insisted that no death at all existed before the fall.
I actually sent an email to my Christian friend to find out their opinion. I’m waiting for their response, honostly I’m not sure of the accepted belief. I think no pays attention to the poor animals. Good post anyway, it does make one think. On that note, are humans not also made with mechanisms for survival proving that we also were going to die one day and fight for survival?
Haha, nice ATTR!